Thursday, December 10, 2009

Gains by girls do not come at the expense of boys when both grow up: Men still earn more than women in the workforce

Getty Images

Getty Images

Remember the report that said girls were being shortchanged in the classroom, which led to more attention paid to how girls learn and how they are treated in the classroom, which led to a backlash of studies showing that boys are actually falling behind in the classroom at the expense of girls?

That original report came from the American Association of Women in 1992. Sixteen years later the AAUW is back with more research supporting other findings that say even though for years girls have been graduating from high school and college at a higher rate than boys, boys have not been hurt by the steady march of achievement by girls. As Tamar Lewin writes in this New York Times article on the research, the report notes that "perhaps the most compelling evidence against the existence of a boys' crisis is that men continue to outearn women in the workplace."

David Leonhardt points out in this Times column (A Diploma's Worth? Ask Her) that women with full-time jobs and bachelor's degrees earned 75 percent as much as their male counterparts in 1992 -- and in 2007. No change. But that doesn't mean no progress. As more women have become college grads (25 percent in the 1960s to 40 percent of women today), the overall pay gap between men and women has tightened to all full-time women in the workforce earning 79 percent of all full-time men, up from 75 percent in 1992.

The gap, though narrower, persists for lots of reasons. Discrimination still plays a part, certainly. And more women sacrifice pay for flexibility to meet family responsibilities. But this most recent research shows that the gains women have made would not have come about without college degrees. It also points up that the biggest disparities in educational achievement are not between boys and girls, but between those of different races, ethnicities and family income levels.

Clearly, there is more work to be done to end discrimination and to raise women's own expectations of pay. Closing the gap among men and women can only be helped when women expect to be paid as much men and are paid as much as men -- especially out of the gate from college. You can't blame having and caring for children on that disparity, hard as some may try. If we don't start out on an even playing field, how can women possibly keep pace?

Since we now know girls/women' gains have not come at the expense of boys/mens', we also need to refocus this girl/boy debate in education on how to provide every boy and girl from every kind of background with an equal shot at a good education and the chance to succeed.

But about that persistent wage gap...do you think you're being paid less than men who hold similar jobs to yours?
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From the Community…

Comments 1-10 of 21
  • Am I there yet?'s Avatar
    Posted by Am I there yet? Tue May 27, 2008 9:13am PDT

    It's generally an unwritten rule (and sometimes written) that coworkers do not discuss salaries and/or bonuses with each other. Just out of curiousity...how can a woman know in an interview that she's going to be paid less than a man would be? Or even someone that's been in the career a while, without talking salary with coworkers, how does one know they're being shortchanged financially in the workplace - especially if their salary falls within the median range?

    I'm guessing that if a woman makes less, it's probably still within the same median range for that position...so unless someone is making a SIGNIFICANT amount less than the lower end of the median range, how would one know that they're making less than they should due to their sex?

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  • Lisa's Avatar
    Posted by Lisa Tue May 27, 2008 9:29am PDT

    you won't be paid more money unless you ask for more money. to this day, i feel that women still have issues with asking to be paid as much as their male counterparts, who have no qualms about salary bargaining, asking for raises, etc.

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  • Big Snoot's Avatar
    Posted by Big Snoot Tue May 27, 2008 10:03am PDT

    It's not a man's fault if he negotiates better for more money. Maybe some of these college classes should teach some better bargaining techniques. I have never seen a job posting that said: "This job pays $50,000 for men and $37,500 if you happen to be female. I am sure that HR people don't set out a specific salary based on gender. Articles like this are stupid. Let's just sit back and cry because someone else make more money for the same job. C'mon ladies...quit whining and grow a pair. ASK FOR MORE OR LIKE WHAT YOU GET.

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  • Maria's Avatar
    Posted by Maria Tue May 27, 2008 10:39am PDT

    Of course the jobs don't post the fact that they pay women less... that would make them liable for a discrimination lawsuit. But since the amount being paid to an individual is kept private, no one would know if they were being pain less than someone else. Unless of course you happen to compare pay checks with a co worker. I did and found out I was being short changed by over a thousand dollars a year. The man ( a good friend of mine) and I were in the same department and doing the same job. As for your "ask for more or like what you get"... what the hell do you think we are trying to do? As for me, I sued my company and got a nice bundle of cash thank you very much.

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  • Maria's Avatar
    Posted by Maria Tue May 27, 2008 10:50am PDT

    Of course, a job posting wouldn't advertise the fact that they pay more to men then women. that would make them liable for a discrimination lawsuit! I found out by comparing checks with a guy friend who was in the same department and should have been making the same amount as me. I sued and got a nice bundle of cash thank you very much!!!!

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  • lm's Avatar
    Posted by lm Tue May 27, 2008 11:10am PDT

    WOMEN DONT EXPECT FROM WOMEN.

    Take tennis for example.

    The demand that women be paid the same as men was NOT BASED ON EQUAL WORK FOR EQUAL WHICH HAS BEEN THE CORRECT BATTLE CRY.

    Instead any arguments against equal pay FOR UNEQUAL WORK WAS "NOT ALLOWED " TO BE DISCUSSED.

    So women felt it was a victory when the majors granted EQUAL PAY FOR UNEQUAL WORK.

    The argument by both men and women who supported this UNEQUAL movement was that womens tennis can be as exciting as men.

    Lets say thats true.

    So what!!

    Equal pay for equal work

    When women take off time to have children THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE WORLD ( and they do get paid so stop your whinning)that SKEWS THESE STATISTICS.

    Now, as evident by the tennis example I gave above, it wasnt facts that won the day , it was the emotional ( and somewhat race based) crying that got the liberal mindset to give in to INEQUALITY.

    Any man WOULD WANT HIS WORKING WIFE TO EARN AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBEL AS IT HELPS HIM AND THE FAMILY AS A WHOLE.

    So I just like there are women who are envious there are men who are envious.

    But laws should not be based on emotion but logic

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  • lm's Avatar
    Posted by lm Tue May 27, 2008 11:14am PDT

    LETS BE HONEST.

    Some women do EARN LESS THAN MEN FOR THE SAME JOB SOLELY BASED ON WHAT THE EMPLOYER thinks may be a future act ( like having children) of that the womens job is "extra" money.

    AND THAT IN FACT IS A WRONG IF THAT IS THE REASON.

    But the other posters have it correct.

    Women are so used to getting what they want ( generally speaking) just by batting their eyes, wearing a better push up bra, sitting at the bar acting like she is interested in a man just to get freebies.

    And many women have no problem admitting to this.

    So lets at least be honest and not make this about men v women when its really about something else

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  • maureen's Avatar
    Posted by maureen Tue May 27, 2008 11:34am PDT

    Women are still earning less than men? I feel frustrated by this. Girls perform better in school due to

    a fondness for following the rules. Boys often don't or won't conform in school because they don't see the value of being a conformist in order to earn good grades. Boys are less risk adverse, this may translate into being better businessmen in the future. Girls are good at following directions, this may put women in subordinate roles in the business world.

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  • sat's Avatar
    Posted by sat Tue May 27, 2008 11:40am PDT

    what kind of gift is suitable for4 girl?

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  • oohay's Avatar
    Posted by oohay Tue May 27, 2008 12:27pm PDT

    I’m a younger male just out of collage several years ago and have only worked at a couple places since graduating collage. At the positions I have worked my female coworkers have been paid on an equal scale as I. I do see that many of the executive positions that require many years experience are held by men which begs the question is the data concerning treatment of upcoming women today imprecise and based on generations of old? Also My wife makes a little more money than I and wants kids soon. Upon having kids she wants to work only part time (which I encourage because kids are the most valuable asset). In the future I may see more advancement in my career working full time than she will working part time. She (4.2, valedictorian) made better grades in school than I (3.1 average student) and will most likely see less personal income than I in the future (keep in mind it’s all by choice I am not saying a woman’s place is in front of a stove). I am wondering if my wife’s situation is common and affecting the data, which this article is biased upon.

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Comments 1-10 of 21

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