Parenting

From the Community…

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  Posted by Rita Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:01am PDT

  I have no problem with people who choose to have children, I just have a problem with parents who can't control their children. It's obvious: don't let your child run around the mall running into people, don't sit for half an hour in a restaurant while your child is throwing a temper tantrum, don't assume that people who don't have children are going to cater to you just because you do. If a child is well-behaved or the parents know how to handle them when they're not, I have no problem with kids. It's when I get the death glare when I mention that someone's child is too loud/obnoxious in a restaurant that I get pissed off. It wasn't our choice to have kids, why do we have to put up with the consequences?

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  Posted by lisalobu0420 Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:15am PDT

  Amen Rita! Back then, kids were alot more well-behaived than they are today. Children weren't the public's "problem" 30 years ago, and if they were, people were expected to snatch up those kids and tell them to straighten up. Nowadays, if you so much as mention that your kid is annoying the crap out of the ENTIRE restaurant while you sit there like you hear nothing, like Rita said, you get the death glare.

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  Posted by Mindy R Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:23am PDT

  30 years ago parents could spank their kids in Wal Mart without worrying they might be thrown in jail. Maybe that is the problem.

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  Posted by superkate Tue Jul 8, 2008 11:58am PDT

  I choose not to have children and am constantly annoyed when people who do have kids just assume that since I am around I want to hold/change/run after, etc their kids. There is reason I don't have any - I don't want the hassle of raising kids. Also I think too many parents are lazy and don't want to raise their kids and feel that everyone else can put up with their nuisance. I love my piece and quiet. I love running around my house naked with no worries. I love that when I go out to dinner I don't have to feed someone else or deal with them.

  My parents raised us with a stern hand and you now what all 10 of us turned out fine. And the kids my siblings raised turned out pretty well to. We were taught to have manners and be respectful. Not selfish and annoying like many kids today.

  Either watch your kids or don't have them

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  Posted by fools_and_sages Tue Jul 8, 2008 12:23pm PDT

  I chose not to have kids. So I guess I am "childfree," if that is the term you want to use. And I do like kids. I just don't like brats. But I'm also willing to admit that a brat is a brat simply because the brat has parents that let him/her be a brat. I also don't like parents who think their bratty children are godlike and expect me to change everything about who I am and what I do or exile my pet to the basement/bedroom/yard just because their spawn is in my house.

  American society has become too child-centered. Parents give up their entire lives to raise kids these days. Once the first screaming poop machine popped out, every one of my friends suddenly became a 24-hour taxi-laundry-food-service provider who over-schedules the kid as soon as it can walk into 65 different activities Every one of my friends ceased to be a human being with their own lives and interests once they have a baby. They all became slaves to child-rearing.

  When we were kids, our parents still had lives and their lives were not entirely centered around ours. They basically made sure we were fed, clean, and safe. They left it up to us to entertain ourselves beyond the one (maybe 2) activities and the toys they were willing to pay for. We weren't catered to. We turned out fine.

  Many parents also assume their kids are welcome at most functions and in all public places. When we were kids, we got left at home with babysitters or went to Granny's house when mom and dad went out to dinner or a movie. I didn't eat in a restaurant nicer than McDonald's (maybe Denny's) with my parents until I was 12 and could be relied on to behave in public. My mother only took me to see children's movies. I was never in a theater sitting and bawling through a horror movie at age 5 or running around in the aisles throwing candy at other patrons during an action flick. I also wasn't sitting and kicking the back of somebody's seat and huffing and puffing because I wasn't allowed to get out of my seat. And want to know why?? BECAUSE I WAS AT HOME. I also doubt anybody was breastfeeding in the seat next to my mom or dad when they went to a movie in 1976 and I also doubt some toddler with a full stinky diaper was sitting next to them either. People need to be more cognizant of when it is appropriate to bring a child to an event and they need to consider that certain events are only appropriate for kids above certain age.

  Parents also expect their "childfree" friends to child-proof their homes and stop drinking alcohol and stop swearing just because somebody had a baby. Guess what? It's not my kid. My behavior and my lifestyle doesn't have to change because YOU had a kid. I'll put my breakables up on the mantle or the counter if you bring your kids to my house because I don't want them broken. The fact that it's safer for your kid is actually not my primary concern. I will try to mind my language because I know kids say the damnedest things, mostly because kids are like parrots and repeat what they hear.

  But If I want to have a beer in my home even with your kid in the room, you can be damned sure I'm going to have one and I'm not going to put it in a dark colored glass or cup to hide it. And if your kid terrorizes my cat or dog and the animal decides to strike back. . .sorry. You should teach your kid to respect animals. But. . oops. . my animal just did that. Plus my animal is not going to be banished from the house when you bring your kid over because it lives here. Your kid does not. It's your job to keep junior/juniorette away from Fido and Fluffy.

  All that being said, to assume "childfree" people don't like kids is ridiculous. I'm sure some "childfree" people don't like them. But some of us adore them-- we just don't want any living in our homes permanently. And the ones we adore are well-behaved which means:

  1) The child has been taught to ask for something, not demand it

  2) The child has been taught to speak to adults with respect, not scream at them to get their attention

  3) The child has been taught that the tv is not their personal domain or plaything and adults get to watch it and use it too

  5) The child has been taught to clean up most of its own messes or get somebody to help them, not walk away and never say a thing.

  And I do adore well-behaved kids. At picnics and on holidays, I'm the one on the floor playing with a herd of children. I'm the one who will pick up a niece, nephew, or godchild and take them out for an afternoon or take them for a weekend. And the kids know when they have pushed me too far because the second I give them "the look" or "the voice", the nonsense stops because they are good kids and have been taught boundaries.

  So. .when childfree people seemingly "hate on" kids, we're not actually "hating" the children. We are "hating" the adults who have spoiled the kids and given the kids the impression that they are entitled to anything and everything as well everybody's undivided attention at all times.

  And, in my opinion, it's easy to raise well-behaved kids if you teach them meaning of NO and the concept of (gasp) CONSEQUENCES for breaking (gasp gasp) RULES. My friends with kids who have done this have great kids and I will take those kids anyplace that is an appropriate place for children to be. My friends who have not done this with their kids have mega-ultra-uber-brats and I don't willingly spend time alone with those children even in kid-appropriate venues because they are mouthy, temperamental bullies.

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• 
  Posted by my2cents Tue Jul 8, 2008 5:26pm PDT

  Well, as an exhausted working mother of a beautiful 2 year old, I have LOTS of thoughts on this subject.

  I agree that kids are generally overindulged these days, and that many parents run themselves and their kids ragged with extra-curricular classes and activities. We feel pressured to be the "super mom"... we have full-time careers and MBAs! we cook! we clean! we work out! we change tires! our houses are immaculate! we raise child geniouses!

  However, things are different today than they were back then. In the olden days, most moms stayed home and cooked and cleaned and tended to the kids. You could let your kid run around with the other neighborhood kids without worrying that they might get stolen or shot, assured that they will come home at dusk to a home-cooked meal. They had the luxury of actually spending quality time with their kids and families.

  Today, in the modern nuclear family, a mom might not have a grandma or even a sitter available to watch their kids while they do fun grown-up stuff, so the kid has to come with, and we sacrifice many events that are just not kid appropriate (movies, romantic dinners, wine tastings, to name a few of my own lost loves). And we definitely don't have time to cook meals every night, so we have to go out.

  Many moms, like myself, work while the kids stay with the nanny or go to day care. I get home exhausted and hungry with aching feet, and all I want is a glass of wine and a pair of flip flops. My husband works evenings, so I often take my daughter to a local restaurant for dinner. Not Mc Donald's (did a previous poster actually insinuate that McD is the only appropriate place to take a kid??) and not white-table cloth, but a local casual eatery. We both may be fussy, and while I do my best to keep her behavior "polite", she will probably throw food on the ground and may even let out a screech or two. She's excited to see mom and probably getting tired too. It's just what 2-yr olds do, regardless of their parents' best efforts. And you may think I am being passive or oblivious, but I'm actually just trying to eat my salad and drink my wine... I've worked a nine hour day, and I'm hungry, and I don't have the energy or inclination to yell at my kid.

  Regarding the kids running through the malls bumping into people, toddlers need to run. If it's hot or rainy or there is no local kid-friendly park, we have to take them to malls. I usually keep my kid on a "leash" in busy public places (more for her safety than for your comfort) but sometimes I just let her run... again, it's what toddlers do.

  In my house, my kid is learning about rules and consequences, and also about social graces. She says please and knows what NO means. But come on, she's two for pete's sake! She can't be expected to behave like a Stepford kid on demand, or to do much besides develop her physical and emotional skills and learn about the world she lives in.

  I have never spanked my kid, not because I'm against spanking but because she has never done anything to deserve a spank... in fact she's probably the most well-behaved and easy kid I've ever met... yet she will STILL throw food on the floor and screech in restaurants CUZ THAT"S WHAT TODDLERS DO.

  Some parents are actually oblivious, insensitive, overindulgent, and kid-spoilers. But a lot of us are doing the best we can, and doing a pretty good job at that.

  So, for those of you who say "why do I need to suffer the consequences of other people's kids" or "I can't stand that spoiled brat's yelling" or "when I was a kid, my parent's wouldn't have stood for that behavior" ... News flash: unless you are a hermit or a cloistered monk, you live in a community with other people, people of all shapes, sizes, ages, colors and levels of social development around you everyday, including cranky tired toddlers and their cranky tired moms. If that's unacceptable to you, I know a nice cave in the French Alps that has your name on it.

  So please, give us a break.

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  Posted by Just Me Tue Jul 8, 2008 6:36pm PDT

  Daniela, you just did what i hate that all moms do... you just want us to feel pity for you... All of you mothers always complain about how much you have to do all the time and blah blah blah.. if you cant handle the pressure... DON'T HAVE KIDS...

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  Posted by fools_and_sages Tue Jul 8, 2008 7:21pm PDT

  I respect you for instilling the meaning of NO in your two year old. That is a great start towards having a great kid. And maybe you are doing the best you can.

  But you still don't have to impose a cranky kid and/or a cranky parent on people who are trying to have a nice relaxing dinner in a restaurant and you don't have to release a momentarily hyper child on shopping mall. You can get take-out or order in while you chill out with a glass of wine and your flip-flops on your couch and let the kid run laps around the living room until he/she falls over exhausted. Wouldn't that be easier than packing up the diaper bag with treats and toys and wrestling the stroller into the car and the child into the car seat in the first place? Heck. . by the time get your cranky self and the cranky kid to wherever you're going, you both would be half as cranky if you had just stayed home!

  And I was raised by a single mother during the 1970s who earned minimum wage. She cooked and cleaned and grocery shopped and did all the household chores and made dinner every night because we couldn't afford to eat out (except once a month or so at McD's or Denny's or a local casual dining place that was like Denny's). And I was in daycare too-- no grandparents or other relatives pitching in to raise me either except on the occasional Friday night or weekend. So you won't see me buying into the tired, overworked single (or married and primary care-giver) mom stuff-- because I was raised by one who raised me to behave in public.

  I was 3 and I could stand quietly and still next to my mom in lines at the grocery store or the bank If I didn't, I did get one swift whack on the bottom. When my mom took me to any restaurant, if I threw a tantrum, the food was packed up and we went home. If the weather was bad, I played inside my home. I wasn't taken to an indoor public place to run around. And I grew up someplace where it rained or was winter 8 months out of the year.

  So, why do today's kids have to run around a mall if the weather is bad? Can't the kid run around his/her parents' home? Why can't parents have a meal packed up and take it home if a kid causes a scene in a restaurant? Why are parents content to hope that everybody else in the restaurant finds the scene cute or funny? Why must they assume that people in the mall are conscientiously trying to avoid the toddler torpedoes? Why do parents assume other adults can and should block out the whines and screeches of children?

  Maybe it's because many parents don't respect that they "live in a community with other people, people of all shapes, sizes, ages, colors and levels of social development", including those who don't want to be at a casual dining establishment while your kid throws mashed potatoes around and screams like a banshee or those people who want to walk through a mall without getting head-butted in the crotch by a runaway toddler that falls down upon collision and bawls like he or she was just fatally wounded by a perfect stranger who then receives dirty looks from everybody else in the mall.

  I'm sorry. But if your kid's screaming is going to continuously interrupt my coffee or dinner "date" with my best friend at a restaurant or the child's free range running is going to cause me embarrassment from accusatory glances at the mall, YOU CAN ENDURE SOME SNIDE REMARKS OR SOME DIRTY LOOKS. Maybe if parents would apologize for the disturbance, "childfree" people would be less likely to throw those remarks and looks around. Consideration goes both ways.

  And I stand by the idea I put forth before-- that all venues are not appropriate for children of all ages. Some venues are not appropriate for kids at all. Others become appropriate as a child attains a certain levels of maturity and self-control. If the venue isn't appropriate, you can get a babysitter or stay home or go to that cave in the Alps until you realize kids don't belong everywhere or your kid is mature enough to behave in public MOST of the time.

  And yes. . I am sarcastically unapologetic about my opinions and I am throwing your words right back at you. But. . .we can be equally self-righteous about defending our rights to enjoy what we're both paying for in public places and we can agree to disagree on where kids do and don't belong. But, in my mind, the people who are causing the disruption are ones who should leave. If the disruption is removed then everybody else (i.e. the majority of people in the room or at the event) can go back to enjoying themselves. That's how it works for disorderly adults. Why shouldn't it work that way for kids?

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  Posted by Erika K Wed Jul 9, 2008 6:32am PDT

  Its very simple Child free people do not posses the ability to TUNE OUT childrens cries, shouts and so on.

  I say it from experience b4 I had my son i used to hate hearing a baby cry , especially if I was out on a date like get serious why is ur baby out in a restuarant on a saturday night with the grown and sexy u know. But now that my son is 5 I so have learned to tune out everything noisy about kids, especially those that throw complete temper tantrums.

  My solution when I see a kid running around the store acting crazy and laying on the floor crying and throwing a fit I LAUGH AT THE PARENTS lol, and I make it obvious. Learn how to control ur kids at home and I promise you , you will not have a problem. No I'm not being mean by laughing at them, maybe it will help them learn how to cotrol their children. My son never ever had a tantrum in public bc he knew better ,I didn't even allow it at home. NO its NOT a part of a kid being a kid thats BS that some parents come up with. Its just parents are lacking parenting skills. I'm not saying I am the best mother in the world but I'd be dammed if my son screams at me in public, especially when I say no to a toy or something. Rule is I said no and thats it , not another word about it. NO I'm not a mean mother either bc my son knows if you behave you will get what you want and he has way too many toys and nice clothes and everything. I just hope he continues to be such a well behaved boy , especially with todays society.

  Good luck to those that don't know how to control their kids..... they sit there quietly while out in restuarants. makes u think.....

  just a note , right now I live overseas in Europe and amazingly the kids here don't throw fits and act stupid

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  Posted by Erika K Wed Jul 9, 2008 6:37am PDT

  I am with fools and sagas 100% bc when my son was a baby you would not catch me at the olive garden on a friday or saturday night, instead I would go in the afternoon when there wasen't many people there , or people on dates and stuff. My m-i-l raised 5 kids and none of them ever misbehaved in public. Parents r just lazy now and expect everyone to help them....no its ur job to teach ur kid how to act right. parents r just making excuses now thats it

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