Saturday, December 12, 2009

Is "old" a dirty word?

Shortly after writing the post, "Are your work habits making you look old?," with Pamela Redmond Satran, author of the book, "How Not to Act Old," I got an email from Barbara Raab, a friend who works in television.

"What's wrong with acting "old" (a.k.a. one's actual age) at work?" she wrote. "I don't think you meant it to be ageist, but I really think this post IS ageist. You haven't told me WHY I should not look over 40 at work; you seem to take it as a given that seeming one's age, if that age is over 40, is something no one would actually want."

She continued: "How about wearing tight jeans and a thong that shows? Or coming to work hung over? These are also things that young people do? Why did you buy into the whole notion of acting younger at work?"

Barbara makes some excellent points. Being perceived as "old" in the workplace shouldn't be considered a bad thing. In fact, experienced (older, mature, choose your word) workers have tremendous value in the workplace and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise in that post. She's also correct  that younger people make huge missteps at work that can often be traced to their youth or inexperience.

I wrote that post with full knowledge that ageism exists and that it is insidious. And those are the same reasons that Pamela Redmond Satran says motivated her to write her book, "How Not to Act Old."  When I asked Satran, who is in her fifties, how she'd respond to the ageist charge, she replied: "My point isn't that you should pretend you're 30 or deny your age. It's to know that these attitudes are out there so that  you can make decisions whether to do anything about them. I work in publishing, where most of my colleagues are a good twenty years or more younger than I am. The tips I include in my blog and book feel like secret tips that were slipped to me by my younger colleagues. And when they revealed them I felt like it was because they liked me and cared about me, and wanted to make sure that I wasn't out of touch."

I agree with Satran. Especially in today's high technology workplace, people who refuse to get on board with technology will be perceived as "old" and not "old" in the good sense (e.g. experienced).  I have conversations every day with people (and yes, even people as young as 40) who tell me that they can't remain marketable today unless they embrace the new technologies needed to do their jobs. My friend Barbara fully agrees with this point, which is part of the reason she took a leave of absence last year from her job NBC to teach journalism and improve her multimedia skills.  And that's what I meant to convey by highlighting Satran's advice.

Still, I have to hand it to Barbara for taking me to task. There is enough age discrimination in the workplace that I'd hate to stoke that fire.

Barbara was the only one I heard from who had this reaction. But several readers did question some of Satran's advice, particularly the piece where she cautioned against constantly running to younger people for help on technology questions. I've been known to ask a younger friend here or there for a tutorial, but the more comfortable I get with technology the more I realize how easy it can be to find answers in a FAQ or online forum. So I like Satran's suggestion to try to find the answer for yourself first.

Readers, what do you all think? Does the kind of post I wrote perpetuate stereotypes we need to overcome?
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From the Community…

Comments 1-10 of 74
  • tressa's Avatar
    Posted by tressa Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:49am PDT

    Now that I'm "old" (50), I wouldn't want to be younger again.....I am smarter, have more to offer, see how to do things more efficiently (and when not to even attempt something). I work with youngsters (20's) and they are all over the place with their energy and ideas. I don't say "No" as much as try to guide them. But mostly it's hands off because we all learn as we go. I do try to not be "jaded" in my approach to things, and I do learn a lot from my younger co--workers, but I don't try to be younger. That would be a disservice to everyone, including myself. If people see me as "old" then so be it, I can't control their perceptions. I remember when I started out and worked with the older set, I didn't think they knew much, now I know they did. Wish I had been open enough to learn from those gold mines.

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  • Mrs. Carol B's Avatar
    Posted by Mrs. Carol B Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:25am PDT

    I am 57 yrs. young, don't let the snow on the roof fool you. I choose to keep my "true hue" and not dye my hair because of allergies to dyes and if it makes me look older so be it. I've never had a problem

    "looking my age" in the workplace.

    In fact when I became a registered nurse at age 50, patient's felt more comfortable with me because they thought I had been a nurse for many, many years. So, I actually have the advantage over my classmates.

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  • B. J.'s Avatar
    Posted by B. J. Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:38am PDT

    Sorry, I missed the post you're referring to, but I have an opinion on the topic. In the last few years, I've been victimized by age-perception in the workplace. I'm also in publishing. And, it twists my frame (sorry - my own personal catch phrase) when I'm treated like I know nothing because I don't have a Facebook, MySpace, or Twitter account. The first company I worked for believed in the value of cross-training. So, from the beginning of my career, and throughout it, I've had the opportunity to do every type of publishing job there is. From Sales/Marketing to writing; designing; managing people and projects; maintaining a computer network; to making press plates; operating the press (web and sheet-fed); and even binding leather books and spiraling 12-month calendars. My primary position is Graphic Designer, but I've also acted as Publisher for three different start-up magazines of my own creation and managed in-house art departments. So, when some young person comes straight out of college and is treated like the new "messiah" because they're focused on what's new and coming soon - I get miffed. Because in the end, they can have great exciting ideas and current knowledge until the cows come home, but until they know how to take it from there to a finished piece or finished project - what good is it? That's where the dinosaur always steps in and makes it all "real" and "tangible". I should mention that I keep up on all the necessary software and can function in about a dozen programs, and excel in about seven of those. So, it's not like I've stopped learning or staying current. I taught my daughter to use only professional graphics programs and how to create something from start to finish when she was very young. When she couldn't get a job with her Communications degree, she turned to her graphics skills and landed one. The company had a mandatory one week training to acclimate designers to the actual "creation process" including prepress and creating art for their printing process. On day two they gave her a workstation and put her to work. There wasn't anything they could teach her that she didn't already know. If I gave the corporation's name you'd immediately understand the necessity of knowing your stuff in order to produce their quick-turn, heavy production materials. Her new bosses had never before hired anyone that hadn't needed that training. They were shocked. So, employers need to look at a person's "value based on age" very differently than they do. Perhaps, on an individual basis.

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  • princess's Avatar
    Posted by princess Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:00pm PDT

    I am 37 yrs old (soon to be 38), and I'm sure my kids and their friends see me as being old. I don't try to act or dress like a teenager, but I'm not going to be dressing like I'm 75 either. If you eat right, exercise and try to stay stress free, it will show. People can't believe it when I tell them that I'm 37 (not bragging, either). Take care of yourself. You're in control of your brain..train it to believe that you are younger than what you are!

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  • *devotion72's Avatar
    Posted by *devotion72 Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:29am PDT

    I agree with Princess...(Not bragging either) but I am about to be 37 and I am going to be a grandma! I do look very young for my age. I say this because when I meet other people and I am with my kids they say, Oh that's your mom, we thought she was your sister! I don't dress like a teen! I just take care of myself! Hey my mom is 61 years old and even she doesn't look her age! I think it's all how you take care of your body!

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  • Fed up's Avatar
    Posted by Fed up Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:32pm PDT

    I'm fifty and I've got to tell you, I have no desire at all to twitter. I'm not even quite sure what it means. Where do people get all this free time?

    Email and an occasional text are about as high tech as I care to get.

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  • Miriam's Avatar
    Posted by Miriam Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:01pm PDT

    Hello I'm 48 today and i look and feel great. Not a grandma yet but look forward to be one I hope soon. I Have a one daughter 26 and when we together everyone thinks we are sisters. Old is a thing of the pass. Wear sunblock dress your age and injoy life. Stay possitive as much as you can. Be grateful to age gracefully. Some of us don't make it there. Now a days the lucky ones make it to older age. God bless..... Miriam form Tampa Florida

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  • Frantastic's Avatar
    Posted by Frantastic Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:14am PDT

    This is a great post. In my thirties I worked with 40, and 50 somethings. Interestingly even though they had mastered their positions, I found them to be quite immature in handling conlfict. I couldn't believe it. They were beyond rational conversation. I've always felt that older women should at that point, be the bench mark for the younger women coming up; often times that is not the case. They seem to be over taken by bad health, intimidation, extreme gossip, just to name a few. I'm not saying all women are like this, but because they have stopped taking care of themselves and have become potluck queens hiding stashes of cookies and crap in their desks. Now that I am 40 and still in the work place, finding the same type of behaviors, but we are improving. Age is mindset. Some of my closest friends are 10 to 20 yrs on me. I guess that's why I have never really fit in with my age group and have been accused of having an old mind, partially do to life experiences forcing me to grow up quicker. I also take care of myself. I don't look 40. but my mind is about 55. I too do not care to twitter facebook or myspace. I just don't have that kind of time. But the blogs are an awesome way to learn interesting views and opinions and to discuss great topics. (like this one) I agree that we should not hesitate to learn and stay competitive in the work place it can be intimidating, I have found myself feeling out of touch at times or behind. My work has always revolved around my children and their schedules.

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  • T's Avatar
    Posted by T Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:05pm PDT

    I am 50. I'm the IT manager in the small office where I work, so I'm not worried about workplace perceptions of my tech skills. I bleach my hair platinum, because the natural color is boring and this is more fun; I'm kind of edgy and naughty by nature and always have been, so it isn't an attempt to look "younger." I've had so many hair colors in my life, this one hardly stands out, except that it's a "fun" color that's more acceptable in my profession, than, say...purple...?

    I wanted primarily to comment on the difference between perpetuating ageism and advising folks to be aware that it's out there. I agree with you, Marci: we need to be aware that these things are at work in our world and not be caught up in them. Compare it to the issue of "appropriate attire" for work. I was told that the second button (from the top) on a blouse should remain buttoned everywhere except in the bedroom, and that I should never let me clothing reveal anything about my form. Safe to wear ugly suits and loosly fitting sweaters. One side of me says, "That's a load of crap! There is no disgrace in being a woman and dressing like a woman!" But the smart side of me realizes that there are forces at work out there that I can't control, so I moderate the way I dress to fit the occasion. I always dress like a woman -- every day -- not like a man. Even my most conservative suit is womanly, but it fits, and it covers most of my cleagave -- easier said than done for some of us!

    The point is, a smart person uses knowledge and experience to advantage and tries to work the best outcome out of every situation. Sometimes that means playing to the audience instead of to our (wiser female) peers. Also don't forget that some of our female peers are bigger problems than the guys. It was women, after all, who originally coined the phrase, "A woman's place is in the home."

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  • another hockey fan's Avatar
    Posted by another hockey fan Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:57pm PDT

    I'm 44 and in the best shape and health (mentally and physically) I've ever been. I loved my youth, but I have zero desire to re-live it. I look forward to gaining more knowledge and wisdom as the years pass.

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