Do women lack ambition? Chime in.

This is a stupid discussion that wants to continually put women on a separate pedestal its not lack of ambition that prevents them from getting the corner office or lack of wanting it. Its the disbelief in themselves that they deserve and the lack of confidence their peirs have that she will fulfill it. Women are raised expecting and having to always do twice as much as their male counterparts in almost every culture so not only do they have to work their 9-5 or w/e it may be but they also are expected to take care of their home and family. They are seen as weak or unreliable b/c they may become pregnant and therefore would not be able to do the job justice. Women still make less then men in the same positions. We have tons of ambition look at the fact that more women graduate from college each year…. that takes ambition to wake up each day and compete with your piers or women ceo’s. The fact is if you want to be a woman CEO then your family will have to wait which is not the same for males. So lets continue with the sexism and degradation by convincing women of future generations that they don’t have the ambition to get the corner office that I a woman has btw.

No I don't think that women overall lack ambition... I think sometimes though, some of us put everyone else before us because of our nuturing nature and so we put things on the back burner and we forget about them for a while.

"...they get tripped up when it comes to getting recognized for their mastery." This is exactly what happened to me. I was the lead manager on a project that allowed my company to be "the first-ever in the country" to accomplish a particular method of production - now the standard and used by the entire industry on a daily basis. I had to develop all steps in the procedures; train and direct the personnel; customize the computer network; and spend 18 hrs. a day babysitting the project (not to mention being on call 24/7). It was a seamless transition and hailed as a great success - for all the men above me. They got the credit and the magazine interviews - I got to roll out the new methods to all our sister companies and train everyone.
Later, we moved so my husband could take a better job. He is ambitious and confident (this being an understatement), and I am friendly and laid back. To this day, friends and business associates are shocked to learn about the depth of experience and accomplishment I have had. They all seem to have gotten the impression that I've always been your standard office employee. They're even surprised to hear I was middle-management. They actually say they're surprised anyone so nice could be in management. Well, I was. In fact, because I could be nice, respectful, and still maintain my authority, I had the happiest, most productive two depts. in that whole group of companies. I found ways to make a non-revenue-generating dept. make money, and was the only manager that ever had money left in his/her budget at year-end. But, none of this seems to mean squat to any potential employers these days. They'd rather take a chance on some kid just out of college, because being near a University town, they're a dime a dozen. When I have taken a lower salary, I get asked why someone with my background isn't doing something more important. So, that's what's happened to my ambition. It definitely has gotten derailed.

AMEN! to Yes it's me! i like your debate point.

Although at 68, I should have gained the wisdom and mastery of myself, it has always seemed more to my liking to work in the background. Whatever position that I held, I climbed to the place where I had to decry responsibility. In my defense, I had home responsibilities and responded to them. Most of my life I had been a caregiver to my husband, to my growing sons, to members of my family who were elderly, to the now new older persons that my sons and wives have become. (Don't tell them that I said that. But it is a reality.)

With age comes an awareness of oneself. I accomplished all that I wanted to. Feeling that men should be in the position of authority has always made me more comfortable. Reasoning: Let the mistakes be theirs and let the women find satisfaction in watching them make the fools of themselves.

Being a grouchy, cynical, old lady has done wonders for me. I love it, and work quite hard at continuing the facade. My grandchildren are wary at times, but laugh at others. Every one who knows me, knows that I don't mean any of the admonitions that I give them except that what I comment on to them is a way of saying that their behavior is inapproiate.

A strong belief of mine is that youth DOES have some good ideas and that we can learn well from them.

First of all we have to or we should redefine the word ambition, I think. Why one should by ambitious towards his or her work rather than devoted or sincere?

Yes, I think the majority of women lack ambition (career). Wanting to be a good mother, as one of the debaters put in is something every mother - working full time or not, aspires to.

A lot of women compete only among themselves and not at the benchmark of men. Unfortunately I still see many women who prefer to depend on their man.

Women definitely do not lack ambition. We put on many hats throughout the day, mother, grandmother, wife, sister, multi-tasker, problem solver, employee, employer, caretaker, student, and etc. Go Girls!

So it's a dog eat dog mothers eating their young sort of world out there? Charming, and I think I don't like this conversation so much anymore. We are each responsible for our personal definition of "success" and ambition AS IT APPLIES TO US INDIVIDUALLY...It wasn't cowardice that motivated me to put my family first - it was values. Now they are at a point where they do not need me to make myself SO available to them and I feel comfortable taking some of the time to forward my own interests.

Judging me for being "unmotivated" and blaming my family for my lack of success as far as YOU see it would be just as bad as me calling you a self-centered and dateless b**ch who sc*'ed their way to the top, took no prisoners and would kill their own mother for the right position. Would that be fair of me to say about you? Do I have the right to judge you? I like my idea as far as my preconcieved idea of who YOU are goes - it makes me sort of happy to think I am superior to you and more successful as a family oriented person and loving mother...and it makes you feel superior and happy that you are more "successful" at your career. WHO CARES?!

This is a VERY important discussion and I was greatful to find it today.
I think women are bursting with ambition, always have been, but their goals are not supported by a larger community. We are all still expected to be domestic slaves, raising children, organizing family parties and baking. The types of ambitions we're 'supposed' to be having are fed to us everywhere in society. When you, as a woman, have an ambition outside of those accepted norms (like wanting to be a doctor or a CEO) you're called selfish, unmothering, or destined to be an 'old maid' because no man will want to compete with your success.
I have a hard time finding positive female role models who are not trying to please everyone by having children and a marriage and a house beautiful home and a career (and thus a stroke by the time they reach menopause)
I've also discovered, after a recent career change, that my husband is an underachiever with his own hang-ups and gives me no support to pursue any kind of goal that would challenge me, so I am left often feeling doubtful and indecsive, which I've even questioned; Is it that I lack ambition? (my job is 'cushy', to me, I do alot of sitting around and spinning my wheels, but the perks and the pay are great. I just have this deep desire to DO something. I had a wellness center and closed it, but I have that drive to put my energy into something bigger than a scrapbook or my friends wedding.)
So, my bottom line is that I don't think there's enough acceptance or support for women to be succesful which leaves many would-be succesful women, at home, putting all their drive and juice into a really complex casserole, or repainting their living rooms for the hundreth time when they could be running a hospital or a company or the country.
I'm pumped.

I'd also like to add that while women are full of healthy ambition, we-unlike men, know how to keep our egos in check. I think it's eons of conditioning ourselves to supress our needs for the love or family; always putting others first, that our egos just don't factor in as much. Deep inside, we know we rock, we know how much work we do, we know we can raise a family, bake for the party, clean the entire house, garden, work a 40+ work-week, look great, and still not kill our spouse or in-laws.
Men work at their job and expect the "World's Biggest Penis Award" just for showing up.
The difference is ego. We don't need very much recognition or support to do all that we do. But just IMAGINE what we could acheive with a little bit of encouragement???

BIG round of applause for Samx!

After almost 30 yrs of successfully climbing the ladder in my profession, I recently landed my dream job...which pays significantly less than I have earned within the past 15 years and has absolutely no administrative/managerial accountabilities. For me, I realized that as I moved up the ladder, I was also moving away from tasks and responsibilities that were the core enjoyment of what drew me to my profession in the first place. I made a conscious decision to return to a position equivalent to one I held 20 years ago, for which I am credentially overqualified and where I have more experience than the cumulative experiences of my colleagues. And it doesn't matter a darn bit!

My ambition now focuses more on the enjoying what I do and caring less about the title, corner office and benefits that accompanied higher level positions. I love not being in charge of anything and anyone but my own contributions to a relatively young and ethusiastically professional group of people. I learn from them; they learn from me. It is a win/win all the way around.

Women do have ambition. We are very strong and competitive

In a perfect world women would not have to choose between family or career. But since this is the real world the choice is made by the woman, they still can say 'no' to one or the other.

In cave men days ppl only lived to their 20's or 30's, and that was just to re-produce the population.

All this ranting about inbreeding, cannibalism, free love (Age of Aquarius), and so on is just moot, history is history, like saying it is what it is.

Now when one is speaking about illiteracy and abortions, I would suggest that they go to the appropriate forum, in order to get on their soap box and preach to the poor lil lambs out there who have lost their way and say.

Oh, and if we WERE "hardwired" to have abortions, we wouldn't be dealing with rotten exes like that anyway - we would have succumbed to pressure from them to have abortions and never had to see their sorry butts again or even HAVE ex husbands we didn't want as husbands in the first place. Instead, we chose to have our children and thank God every day for them, in spite of the difficulties.

My story: Raised in a family drapery business and gave support to the family then, went to college for office administration, got married and stayed at home to raise my son and worked part time in the Hospitality field, got divorced and went back to the same industry I was raised in (Interior Design) for personal satisfaction reasons and to have an income that was relatively stable...then was laid off from that job twice in five years and determined never to go back. I was overqualified when they hired me, and now I am not only overqualified but fed up with their antics and the hostile work environment, so I decided to return to college for a Bachelor's degree in business with a concentration in Hospitality Management because I want a future with a good career where I enjoy the people and cultures I am exposed to. Do I lack ambition? Hardly - taking care of my family has always been foremost of my ambitions, and having a career is going to be what makes me successful at it. After being laid off for the second time, a decorator I was in contact with two years ago (when I was laid off the last time) called me out of the blue to have me do some work for her. She came to see some of the work I had done in my own home yesterday and insisted I should not quit sewing and was sure I could "build up" to a large workroom based on the quality of workmanship I showed her. I am getting all A's in my courses at college, and although I do not plan on quitting sewing, I am not sure I want to make a career out of it. I simply responded, "Who knows? Maybe the business degree will help me with that" and agreed to do the work for her.

Ambition is a funny thing, and a person's success cannot be measured by how much money they make or a choice between one field or another. I believe I put my "personal best" (I promise that is the last time I will use that phrase) into everything I do - I am methodical and precise and talented at a lot of things. My short term ambitions are to continue to do work for decorators as a means of supporting my family, and if it takes off, then great. My long term goals are absolutely ambitious - I am ambitious, but I do not know if my ambitions will lead to a corner office and I would hate to be shut off from all the real "action" going on, as I believe relationships in all areas of life should be nurtured (and enjoy the fast pace of being involved in EVERYTHING) - and that includes business relationships. I believe I will be successful, at least in part, BECAUSE of this - not IN SPITE OF it. I would hate to be miserable in a career with a six figure income, but if I could be happy and still have that income, I would not turn my nose up at it, that's for sure.

I want a nice house with land around it and a workroom for my own enjoyment that I plan on decorating and landscaping and keeping more dogs at, I fully intend on "rewarding" my college success with a new convertible - I understand Lexus just came out with a hybrid convertible that looks appealing to me, and I have been waiting for one that did not look like it was manufactured by Ikea to come out, and since I will be only 40 when my son graduates from high school, I plan on at least visiting Europe and taking my son with me. I will have to have a successful career to attain all of this. What good is having the money if you cannot enjoy it? Did no one ever hear the expression "Life is a journey, not a destination"? And what person can you imagine ever said at the end of their life, "I wish I focused on my professsional ambitions more and spent less time with my family"?

I remember the 80's - both of my parents (and also my grandparents) were successfully self employed. My father made his first million before he was my age, spent almost no time with me, and blew every last dime being selfish and irresponsible, and I made custom draperies for his living room as a gift to cheer up my third (or fourth?) stepmother this last Christmas. It was a time of excess where people concerned themselves with keeping up, or even SHOWING UP, the "Joneses". Then we got to GHW Bush's "Kinder, gentler nation" (which was a load of crap - people just smiled at you more as they stabbed you in the back to get ahead)...Flash forward to the end of the first decade of the new millenium - people are back to being self-centered, egomaniacal and poor excuses for human beings as they pursue "green" careers to save the planet for future generations of self-serving egomaniacs - did you know that the average salary of a "non-profit" director is WELL in excess of $150,000 a year? Federally bankrolled (at taxpayer expense) banking and auto manufacturer executives are taking corporate jets to company bankruptcy hearings instead of driving or flying coach while the average citizen is suffering from a recession THEY caused. Does anyone realize the irony in any of this?

The moral of MY story: Maybe everyone SHOULD concern themselves more with being supportive of friends and family than "ambition" right now. Spinning your wheels in pursuit of ambition is still spinning your wheels.

I'd love to add my thoughts, but I am busy at work on a busy project, and since I have the temerity to be ambitious and want to do well, I can't comment right now...

I would love to hear this discussion. 52 year old long divorced female working in banking and finance, I have a 20 year old currently in college. I did not have to go at this alone; my choice and no regrets. Ambition? Well, I'm pretty settled and family is important, but I do work hard and responsibly on my job, more so than some male co-workers. The recognition stuff? Don't know about that, but I do take pride in knowing I'm often training other male co workers and I take personal pride in knowing I know the job better than they.

I think you need to bring this down to a more readable level for your Shine community to respond to. Too wordy, too uppity. Try a rewrite and repost.